Transcript: Interview With Samantha Mansfield

In our latest podcast episode, Maureen talks with Samantha Mansfield, nationally recognized speaker and recipient of the 2019 AICPA Most Powerful Women in Accounting award, about implementing new technologies, robotic process automation (RPA), disruption mapping and more. Listen to the full podcast here, and now you can watch the podcast recording here. 

Maureen:
Welcome to Leading Forward the Virginia society of CPAs podcasts, where we focus on innovation leadership and the CPA profession. I'm your host, Maureen Dingus. And I invite thought leaders for sure, casual conversations on topics and trends important to the success of the CPA profession. All right, welcome everyone to Leading Forward today, we are with Samantha Mansfield. She is a consultant in the accounting space and has done a lot of writing and speaking. We were just chatting and I had seen her at a conference a couple of years ago, and I remember how inspiring it was all of the future forward thinking information that she she talked about. So I'm really excited to be here with her today. So welcome Samantha.

Samantha:
Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here,

Maureen:
Right? Right. We're going to see a bit of you later on in the year at the via CPA, you're going to be speaking at one of our conferences and publishing an article. So your name is will be familiar to a lot of members this year. I hope.

Samantha:
Excellent. I hope so. I hope what I have to share is helpful and helps them, like you said, get that picture of where they want to go from here.

Maureen:
Right? Right. So, Samantha right now you talk you know, a lot of what you speak and write about is about the technology space, but give me a little bit about your leadership journey. How did you get to where you are right now being a consultant

Samantha:
Slightly? And I think that's a great question. Certainly I feel like I somewhat tripped my way into this, but when I, when I got out of school, I actually started my career in sales. Never envisioned that I would ever have a career in sales. But that, that is where it began. And what I really found is that in the sales process, I loved the getting in and getting in the nitty gritty when I was working with, with practitioners, with accounting practitioners, my whole career has been working with professional accountants. And that's what I found I loved the most is when I got to get in there and try to problem solve with firms. So it wasn't long that I really started making the move more to the consulting side because I would spend so much time at that point.

Samantha:
And when we talk about making changes, when it comes to technology and firms, it's not as straight laced is simply great. Here's one piece of technology and we're going to swap it out with another. There's a lot of psychological ties that go to that. And there's a lot of leadership that's needed to help bring an organization and your team along to find their comfort in making that shift. And so there's really a very much a parallel between the leadership skills and the change management and the project management that we have to develop as leaders to be able to make it effective to be able to implement new technology. And the other piece that I would say that that's helped me to get to where I am, where I do talk leadership and culture along with technology is the fact that if we continue to look at technology as just again, a swap out of the way, we've always done things.

Samantha:
And now here's a new tool. That's where those accounting professionals are going to be struggling as we go forward. Because what we really have to do is we have to look at what's the opportunity that this technology affords me. And what does it mean that's going to change as we go forward. And just to give a really clear example of that is look at the difference between blockbuster and Netflix. And I loved this example. I kind of feel silly why I didn't think about this myself, but I saw this in a newsletter from a futurist Daniel Burris, and he really pointed out look at that difference, you know, as the technology changed, blockbuster did change, you know, when we went from VHS to DVD and then to Blu-ray, they made all those changes. But the problem that they didn't do is they never paused to look at what does it really mean for the future of how people are going to want to interact with their home entertainment.

Samantha:
And that's where Netflix won out. And we see that a lot that there's this fear of what the technology is going to do and how it might displace us, but that's only going to be true if we don't take that opportunity to really think about what is the new opportunity and what's the new expectation of what a client's going to want. And now we get to start building that. And if we start early, we get to be gradual with that process. And that's what I find to be the most exciting. And I know it can be nerve wracking, but that's where I get excited about what we,

Maureen:
Yeah, yeah. We a year or so, two years ago, this, this last year has made everything made my timelines sketchy, but a couple of years ago, we were doing a presentation with members about change management and just in general kind of, you know, change management. And when we would ask them to talk about in their career, the biggest change management challenge they had, it was almost around technology and in their companies. And just all the aspects that, that you just outlined it's what was the tone from the leadership, how were the frontline people brought along? How were they, you know, what was the driving reason that they even needed to change? Because it was, it's not transactional, it's not buying a product and then you move on. It's very complicated and people are threatened and scared. And maybe not seeing as far as far a field, as some folks, some other people are, so you have your hands full

Samantha:
In your you're a hundred percent, right? It is. It's very emotional. And that's where to, to your original question, that's where kind of my leadership path has taken me to where I am today is, is because you can't only talk about the technology. We have to recognize that it's a very emotional process for everybody involved. And so there's, there's all of that leadership that's required. And, and th they go hand in hand. Right?

Maureen:
Right. So I do want to talk to you about some kind of, kind of gauge things future forward, but just for a minute, I'd like to reflect on the past year, you know, 2020 has catapulted us into, you know, lots of things that we never thought we would do. Things that maybe we thought were decades away or now, or months away and forced us to live and work in different ways. So just from your perspective where you sit, what, what were some transformational moments in the technology area this past year?

Samantha:
I think one that that's an obvious one is really cloud. And I, I realized that that might sound dated to some people and say, weren't we really all in the cloud, but the fact of the matter was the answer is yes and no. There were a lot of cloud technologies, and I don't know if there's much of any offices, accounting offices that didn't use some cloud technology, but to say that their entire workflow is in the cloud. There were a lot that that was not the case. And so making that transition to dispersed work teams and people needing to work from home that really brought to light how much paper and how much still on premise processes that we had. And so that was one thing is that we really had to make a shift and that included hardware for some organizations, I I've worked with some that they still had only invested in desktop computers.

Samantha:
And that was a big problem in, so mobility is part of our way of life now. And so any technology revolving around that very much went into the spotlight and became valid. The other, I would say is collaboration tools. When we were working in the office, it was very easy to you just pop by somebody's cube or pop into an office or something of that nature when we're all working remotely. And we're dispersed. One of the biggest areas the professionals were struggling with is I've lost my collaboration. I've lost my ability to have that quick chat, that, that way to spark the ideas or get that quick answer, or even just stay connected because beyond the tremendous workload for the accounting profession in this last year because I really do believe that you were the front line for the economic recovery, and it's been an extremely taxing year, no pun intended on that.

Samantha:
For the accounting profession, you need your connections and to be able to avoid burnout too. And so figuring out the best collaboration tools and then the ways to use them effectively, that was a big change in 2020, and then another one that's been coming for quite a while. And I think people have heard a lot about it, but they're not a hundred percent sure what it was is RPA robotic process automation. And that is something that even if you personally haven't experienced it yet, the data points are showing that it is vastly grown over 2020, and that you will likely be seeing this very soon because it's a survey by Deloitte that was updated during the year 2020 indicated that 94% of executives are either actively implementing RPA into their processes or are going to be very soon 94%. So I would say those are probably three key areas that had a lot of movement in accounting during 2020.

Maureen:
So to piggyback off the, the, the 94%, if I'm in that 6%, what are some of the things that I might not even be thinking about that would fall into the RPA? Some specific examples that are kind of the, maybe the obvious ones that aren't just popping into our mind right now?

Samantha:
No great question. So RPA, if, if you even just a research RPA or robotic process automation, very commonly, the examples that are given of use cases for RPA is accounts payable. And it doesn't matter what industry you might be looking at, what periodical it's a very, very common example used when discussing how RPA can be implemented because RPA strength is in any process. That's very rules-based. And when we think about accounting procedures, many of those are very rules-based. So we're RPA is that the rules and the documentation of what the process is, can be set up. And so example is that an RPA system can identify an invoice in your inbox and where it needs to go from there and what that next step would be. And it can interface between the systems as opposed to where right now, what we're finding in the accounting profession is we, again, are over capacity.

Samantha:
Every time I talked to accounting professionals are saying, do you know somebody looking for a job we're in? And I don't mean to make light of that at all, but what I'm trying to say with that is it's really an issue across the profession in this technology can help get some capacity within the teams that you have, because we can then take some of that very routine tasks and have that automated, where then the special skill sets of your team members can be going to higher value. And so RPA is something that is growing a lot in accounting and finance, because so many of those transactional tasks are rules-based. Now, when we look further ahead then that's where we start looking at how artificial intelligence can get involved. And then that's where we can start looking at more of the unstructured and how we can support you there in those more complicated scenarios. But RPA is so accessible because of that. And there, there are multiple technologies that are coming out with packages kind of out of the box kind of packages that you can start setting up within your firm.

Maureen:
Yeah, that's what I was wondering, is it, it, it's not something that we all need to be working on creating those rules and the if then, but it's, there are tools that we can start to buy that will help kickstart that process. Yes,

Samantha:
Yes. There are, there are organizations, Microsoft is, is coming out with some, there are various organizations that are starting to come out with some of those packages. I see this a little bit more happening in larger firms, just because they've got some folks that have technical or technology prowess, and that can help with that implementation. So I don't think we're at that point where it's a complete just here it is. You probably are still going to want some folks that have that, but that's where you can look at organizations that do technology implementations and so forth that, that know accounting functions. And could certainly talk to you about those options too.

Maureen:
It also sounds like a great opportunity for firms, for some consulting with their clients, right?

Samantha:
100%. Absolutely. You know, I had the opportunity, the fall to speak with a partner of a very large firm. Think it's a top 50 firm even in, on the East coast. And one of the things he said is they were meeting with a client doing an audit, and he said, the client said to him, or they were delivering the audit report, I guess I should say. And one of the things the client said to him, and he said, you know, what, if you could fix my technology problem, I pay you a million dollars and, you know, larger firm, they have the capacity or the knowledge. And so they actually listened to that as opposed to laughing about it. And they, they went in and proposed and they did fix that for the organization. And it is now a multi-million dollar client for their firm.

Samantha:
So, yeah. And then when you look at even opportunities, like what AI CPA has with like doing SOC audits and that type of thing, or some organizations are starting to do blockchain audits, right. Because there needs to be the verification that the blockchain is set up and verifying the data. It says it's going to verify, right? So there's so many opportunities and that's where many firms are also looking to bring in technologists into their organization and then do mentoring with your skilled accounting professionals and some technology people, and have them work together to find solutions.

Maureen:
Right. Right. I do have another question to look back on 2020. I didn't mean to spend so much time talking about the past, but one of the things that you made me think about with the idea that the, the cloud, you know, thinking about the cloud so much more expansively and thinking about collaboration and maybe people, I don't want to say rushed, but they were deeper than they'd ever been in. And now they're coming out of this year of, I have a little breathing room. Do you, did you see any lessons that people are maybe coming out of that from, that maybe need to tweak? And I'll just give you one example of what we're experiencing at our organization. So, you know, we're all on teams and we have channels and we're chatting and posting. And what we have found is that it gets chaotic and we're having to figure out like rules of engagement on just how do we communicate with each other and even thinking about, you know, the analogy of I was going to say, we all know how to address an envelope, but I'm not sure that my teenager knows how to express an envelope, but I sure as an adult, most of us know how to address the novel.

Maureen:
We understand the structure and what to do when it's with teams. It's, it's this whole new world of communication that we don't have rules right now. So we're working on that, like, Hey, this is how we want to operate, but yeah. Have there been any things like that that maybe people are reflecting on that that they've got to a break point, but in order to move forward, they might need to tweak.

Samantha:
Well, I think you identified one of the ones I hear the most in that is that's that collaboration and communication, because you have all these individual preferences. I do email, well, I'll just text you. Well, I use teams or I use Slack and, and it becomes burdensome. And I think you use the word chaotic. And I think that's very true. So hundred percent organizations do need to identify what is our communication channel and what is, how do we use these different methods? So where's the, the method to cut through the noise and really raise the red flag. I need help right now. Right. What what's that communication channel? Is that a phone call in your organization? Is that a text? Is it, that's what you use teams for? Although I wouldn't suggest that, you know, the informal just quit going back and forth. That's where you use things like teams things that don't have to be answered this instant.

Samantha:
Maybe that's still more than email friend, but you're 100% that stuff needs to be identified in communicated and everybody trained on it and then accountable to it. Another one is I was actually just recently reading review of portals, client portals, and the way to exchange documents electronically, right? Accounting professionals, you are dealing with files that, that we have to have secure ways of being able to transmit those. So portals used in accounting have been around for a long time. However, when we think about how much people in, when I say people, I do mean both your, your team, your staff, as well as your clients and your clients, either the, the other colleagues within your organization, if you're a corporate finance department, or if you are public accounting and you have paying clients think about the immense additional exposure, people have to transacting virtually and digitally now, and think about what elevated expectations they now have on what could be.

Samantha:
So is your portal up to par anymore? Maybe it was fine when you were still still dealing with trying to convince people to not drop everything off on your desk, via paper. But now that they are doing online grocery shopping and, you know, shopping everything online and the, all the ways that we transact and signing documents and, you know, my husband and I were just even talking about blown away, the number of people that are buying houses without ever looking at that and how virtual all of that is. And when you think again about how seamless, so much of that has become, if you look at your own process, can you say the same? And if you can't, that's an area you need to put some focus because it's about the client experience. And you need to make sure that the tools you're using are elevating that because the expectations are certainly increased and improved because people know what's possible.

Maureen:
Yeah. Just in, in our, in our world with delivering education, we've started to talk about delivering the frictionless experience because, you know, you can take education anywhere, but is it easy to log on and, you know, get your credits and everything that's interact. And, you know, so I think that could apply to exactly what you're saying is, is it a frictionless experience for your customer?

Samantha:
Well, and I'll even give one example. So my tax return is done for this year in working with my accountant. We, we had our tax appointment via zoom. He has an app as a part of his portals. So right through the app, I was able to scan everything in just using the phone on my camera, but it was actual scanning app or portion of the app. So it framed everything. It clarified, you know, made sure it was readable for him. Cause I know that's a huge pain point for the profession. And then when we finished the appointment my husband got the notification to electronically sign the 88, 79. He signed it. And on my watch, I instantly got a notification. I logged in, I digitally signed it and we were done. Our, our return was e-filed. That was it. But the part that blew me away I've, you know, DocuSign, all of that used it before. But the part that blew me away in how seamless or the frictionless that you just talked about is that I'm sitting next to my husband. He signs it through his login and it was seconds that my watch goes off letting me know it's there for you to do your signature from your login now, and then we're done.

Maureen:
Yeah. You know, I was in a a round table with some members and this may have been about four years ago and they were talking about how some younger clients would take photos of their, of their materials and whether it was text or email. And they were so frustrated with that. But now you're talking about exactly meeting that that customer in that realm, because that's how people want to act. That's the world they live in. And now the technology is, is addressing that. So it's, it's marrying that, that security and the accessibility with the way the customers live

Samantha:
100%, you nailed it because it's, it's now the technology gives them that experience, but it's giving the greater security and it gives you better quality source documents and, and filing and organizing.

Maureen:
Right, right, right. Well, good. That's, that's, that's some great examples. So thank you. Alrighty. One of the things I did want to talk about, like I said, is looking forward maybe far out and one of the things that, that you presented to us and I've seen it before and I always am so fascinated by it is the Gartner hype cycle. So kind of looking at the, the, all the places technology has been along that line, starting from, you know, the innovation that peak of inflated expectations all the way down to the plateau of productivity. And, and I, I remember hearing about when, when cloud computing was on that very, the very beginning of that hype cycle and people thought that's crazy. And now, you know, like you talked about it's, it's there it's, I would say that it's pretty far along in that plateau. But what are some technologies that maybe are intriguing to you that are moving along this, this hype cycle?

Samantha:
Absolutely. Well, I think one of them is the robot or the process automation, the RPA. So I think we were making a lot of progress on that because what makes some people laugh when they look at that Gardner hype cycle is that after you go from the peak of inflated expectations, you have the trough of disillusionment. And that just always makes many people laugh because it's a serious, it's a serious plunge. And I think we have all felt it where you hear the glorious stories of the, the here's, what can happen. And here's where it will go. And then we start seeing all these implementations and these dismal failure stories, but it's all part of the learning process. It's, it's part of what we have to go through as we're implementing something new. And we, each of us have a different tolerance on where we're comfortable with being in this process. Some people love being that innovator and being the ones out there, testing it. Some people really love that part, many people don't, that's why we have the bigger audience is in your early majority adoption. Right. So when we're looking at some of the tools that have been through here, you're a hundred percent right. Cloud SAS some of those they're commonplace. We don't want them looking at me.

Maureen:
I think of them because they're just exactly it's so 100%

Samantha:
Infused into what we do every day. Right. and so when we're looking at some of the stuff that's coming, like I said, RPA is one blockchain is another one that I know for many people, blockchain it's the cryptocurrency is, is where most of us probably have our simulation to it initially. But I think what we see in the way that it can help with like tracking food through supply chain. So those use cases of where they can know exactly which farm it came from and so forth. So when we have a contamination issue, we don't have to say to the whole United States, everybody throw your romaine lettuce away. We know exactly which farm the contamination came from, which stores it went to. And then you can have much more targeted and we don't have near the amount of waste. I think those things are still being worked on and they're not at that plateau yet, but I think, I think we're going to get there on some of those tools in, in that usage.

Maureen:
So that's, when you think we'll make it through, I think it's not commonplace.

Samantha:
Exactly. Scalability is the one they're still having some challenges with, with blockchain. So they're still working on scalability on, on some of those pieces. And then other ones that I think are coming and this is going to sound extremely broad, but it's, it's so many of the different artificial intelligence tools. And so to that point of something that, that used to be on there, you know, artificial intelligence had been on there for years. So you may say, aren't we really in this disillusionment because it's been on there for so long, the problem is, is that it was so big that now we just keep seeing it popping up in very specific use cases. And so that's why we're seeing it on there. Virtual assistance. That's another one that was on there several years ago, but I'm going to avoid saying her name because she'll go off in my background here, but we, we, most of us have a virtual assistant, whether it is in fact in a home device. I mean, that's, that's the situation that we were in today is exactly that. So those are elements that they're coming what the final image of that's going to be or what the application is going to be. That's going to tweak. I think it will tweak as time goes on. But we're going to continue to see the, the use cases of those emerging and evolving and coming into our daily lives.

Maureen:
One of the things that maybe I just hadn't paid attention to, or heard of that you, you mentioned in your article edge computing, can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Samantha:
Absolutely. So with edge computing, what that is about is I'm gonna take it back and relate it to something that, that maybe some of the more mature audience may remember, and that is this kind of ebb and flow, where we went from, like the mainframe computers and you had the dummy terminals, right? And then the PCs came out and the computing power was really on the PC. And then when we really look at cloud, we took the computing power back to like that main frame, right. Again, using very old analogies, but hopefully trying to break some of that down. So when we're talking about edge computing, what starting to happen here is that we're taking some of the computing power that's happening in the cloud and we're moving it to date or hardware, I should say, that's closer to the source of the inquiry.

Samantha:
And so that's what they're saying. The edge of the cloud is that we're, we're taking and we're making some of the processing and the computing accessible closer to where the device actually is. And so what that really means is that when let's say, when we give our virtual assistant a question what's happening is there's data computing. That's actually much closer to the source of where we made the inquiry, as opposed to the latency of it going all the way to wherever that cloud data center is processing it and sending it back. Now, that can be pretty quick, but there are other times that we notice the delay and where that delay is a problem is when we start thinking about things like autonomous vehicles or some of the ways internet of things are being used and so forth. And that latency is an issue and we need more of that instant computing and that's where 5g will come into play as well. But that's where some of this distributed cloud is also taking place.

Maureen:
Okay. I think I'm going to have to still keep thinking on that one. So, so just like in practical purposes, this is happening now, the edge computing is happening now,

Samantha:
There are, right. So there are different use cases that, that are happening. Again, it's not widespread as widespread at this point. This is one of these emerging tools that Gardner has identified. And so what we're able to do is another element of what edge computing allows is that when we're working in these big packets of data, go up to get stored in the cloud. Well, what edge computing also does is that by having some of the computing power closer to where we're actually performing the work is that it can still process and function. And when there's less traffic of going to the cloud, then it'll send those big packages of data, as opposed to, I think we've all have experienced that, right? Where you know, when there's more people active in the bandwidth is being drained, right. It's harder when we're trying to do that. So edge computing is starting to problem solve for some of that too, because it does give the technology we'll also use less congested, congested times to be able to start sending the big packages of data.

Maureen:
Does that help at all? Yeah, I think so. So that, that traffic issue, like, so when I'm at home, working with my kids, going to school, some of those traffic issues, maybe that's more of a 5g issue there. Yeah.

Samantha:
And that's where these come together. Right. They're not siloed, many of them there are going to be able to interplay to help us overall.

Maureen:
Definitely. So you talked about the RPA, but you also have in your article, a hyper automation. So is there a distinction between those two?

Samantha:
Sure. So RPA is a portion of hyper automation. So one of the things in, when you said, you know, what, what are elements that we're going to have to address based on changes that we made in 2020? This probably another one, because what we did is we had to find answers and we didn't necessarily have the time to maybe do all of the research or the implement, the ideal implementation of some of this. We needed a solution, we put it into place. And so for many organizations, we have a bit of a patchwork right now, and the systems aren't all talking together like they can. And so what Gardner identified, and I mentioned that in the article that this is one of their top of emerging technologies, is that as organizations, we're going to want to streamline these disparate systems to be able to start making them talk together. And so RPA is one of those. And then that's when you start adding in additional technologies like artificial intelligence, then now we can start making, even as I mentioned earlier, the non-structured things that more we have to think about. It's not just so by the book rules based check the box, but there's, there's nuance in there. And when you start putting audit artificial intelligence into that automation, that's where we can do what they're calling this hyper audit.

Maureen:
Right. Right. So the marrying of those two. So there's a lot for CPAs to think about a lot too, just maybe refined within just looking farther out and, you know, maybe they're thinking about transforming their business and really being the firm of the future. How do you recommend firms start thinking about this, or maybe they've been thinking about it, but improve their thinking and keep this moving forward. Sure.

Samantha:
I, what I think is important is one not getting intimidated by it because one, I think that can happen is that these ideas, like what we just talked about, it seems so far removed. And I don't have the first idea on how I would work with any of that. But I think what we can do is being aware of what's coming, allowing ourselves to think about what the opportunities are and not even allow ourselves, but be disciplined in making ourselves think about that, right? So that we don't get disrupted so that the, the projections or the forecasts that say that careers in accounting are, are going to be going away with this automation. I wholeheartedly agree with what Barry Melanson says that the accounting profession is going to evolve and change. And as long as we're looking to that future, and we look at what the value is that you bring, you're not going to get automated way, but if you perceive that your value is simply the transactional work and producing that compliance, then I have a concern that, that the longevity of that work will face challenges.

Samantha:
But what we can do is keep aware plan. And in the article that you mentioned, I even put a link to a tool that you can use to help think through that. Because again, just, this seems so big, and I don't know about all this technology, but there's a tool that you can use to really go through an exercise and it's called disruption mapping. And that's where you can really start thinking about, okay, if my team all starts working remotely all the time, what are the implications of that? And then what are the secondary implications of those? And that's where we can start to find those opportunities. Because if we start looking at something like that, or my clients are gonna want to continue this virtual interfacing, what will that mean? What is that going to look like? And that's, if we can give ourselves a way to structurally think through it, then it doesn't become so intimidating where I don't have time to deal with that. I have plenty of other work to do. And I'll just wait and see what other people come up

Maureen:
With. Yeah. So that, that sounds like a great tool, the disruption map, because you're right. It, where do you start? It's you go online and look at, you know, look at what everyone else is doing and think, gosh, how does that apply to me? It's still, you know, everyone has to look at their, their business, their business goals, their, their future. And start from that vantage point, I would guess, but it's good to have a tool to help walk you through that.

Samantha:
Absolutely. And I just saw a really wonderful quote in I believe it was James clear that said it. And he said, if we, if we never use best practices, then we're doomed to repeat the failures that everybody else has already done. But if we only use best practices, then we're constantly competing with everyone. And so it's that balance of, you know, staying aware, looking what other people are doing, have that dialogue, but then also making sure that you're taking that time to say to the very point you just did. Where's my future vision of where we're going and what we can do. And making sure that the uniqueness of your organization is playing its part in there so that you're not just mirroring what others are doing.

Maureen:
Right. Right. Well, Samantha, you we've covered a lot of ground in this short time and I know there's a lot more, but I'm gonna let you get back to your day, but I did have one more question for you. What, when you're not helping firms think about technology, what do you do for fun?

Samantha:
So this is probably gonna sound very odd. But I like spending my time in history. So I like, you know, you, you have all this time, you're looking to the future. And I really enjoy history. So I do a living history just last week. I actually got to go to our son's school and teach fourth graders about the American civil war. So it's for me, I'm a teacher at heart. So even my hobby reflects that. But I just enjoy kind of taking that slow down and being able to look at our past and what we can learn from that. I just, I think it's fascinating,

Maureen:
But so do you have any recent history books that you dove into or any documentaries that you like? Well, I haven't

Samantha:
Watched many documentaries lately, but there are some podcasts that I think are, are kind of fun. And of course I'm going to blank on them, but Aaron Minky has several that he does. And I, I think it's very interesting how he weaves in through history and all of these connected elements. So if you enjoy history, I would definitely look up podcast by Erin Minky. I've, I've really enjoyed a number of them that he

Maureen:
That's awesome. I'll I'll check that out. Well, Samantha, thank you so much. It's been just a pleasure talking to you. You've given us so much to dive into and research that I know that we'll be busy for a good while, so thank you so much.

Samantha:
Oh my pleasure. Thank you.

Speaker 1:
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